Posts by Lee Elder

21

Good News from Calgary

by Kismet in

jw
friends

the appeal court backed the decision of the lower court judge.. i am not rejoicing that the girl is necessarily getting the blood, tho i certainly like her chances for survival far better this way than with the 'alternative' treatment.

i have long been of the opinion that people have the right to chose medical treatment as long as it is an informed decision .

the court in their ruling support the fact that this girl did not make an inofrmed choice and was under intense pressure from the church, not her own belief.

Lee Elder

This is potentially a very important development. I want to
focus on these comments of the judge:

... the judge also pointed out that the teen has not looked "death in the face," because she's been told by fellow Witnesses that the blood transfusions are not essential to save her life.

"Because of incorrect information and the behaviour of some around her she now believes that she will not die if she does not have transfusions," she said.

The Appeals Court recognizes that the girl has been fed inaccurate information by fellow Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Society and that neither her (despite her being a mature minor) nor her mother are able to view the situation from a balanced perspective and make reasonable choices.

Lee

21

Letting JW relatives go....revisited

by MegaDude in

jw
friends

some of you might remember i posted my thoughts on why, after years of shunning, and me continually trying to establish contact with the jw relatives that do this, i finally decided it was healthier for me to let them go and stop doing that.

this was especially true in the case of my younger brother, who was more like a best friend.

we spent a lot of time together before my extricating myself from the watchtower, including vacations and lots of weekends.

Lee Elder

Very good post. In AA they frequently talk about the "Serentiy Prayer". I think its useful for these kinds of situations - even if you no longer believe in God.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change
Courage to change the things I can
and the wisdom to know the difference

Kudos to you Megadude

Lee

20

I belive the watchtower will fall.

by sleepy in

jw
friends

i belive the watchtower will fall.. maybe not now but in ten or twenty years its really going to be struggling.. it will be obvious to most in a few more years thay armageddon is not coming , 1914 is wrong etc.

"apostate knowledge" will become much more widespread due to the internet.. it is different to other religions in the fact that everyone is looking forward to armageddon in their life time.

it is the driving force for witnesses and will cause it to die.armaggedons no-show will cause bitter disappointment .. those who have left already , and have taken their families with them have stunted future groth as this is mostly made up of children of believers .. people are becoming better educated and more knowledgeable in general.. all the elderly ones will have died, with no link to the past ,and no armaggedon enthusiasm will die out.. this generation of witnesses may be the last.. (then i woke up)or did i?

Lee Elder

My gut feeling is that the WTS will slowly but surely slither towards
the middle - gradually caving in on blood, shunning, holidays and other
contentious issues that serve little purpose in the big scheme of things. A hundred years from now it will probably be as different from today's WTS organization as Russell and the Bible Students are.

Lee

8

The Watchtower's "N" word.

by Lee Elder in

jw
friends

there is no word in watchtower speak (theocratise) that carries more emotional charge than apostate.

to be labeled an apostate is the lowest low worst than pond scum.

in jw thinking, there is more hope for a pedophile or a murderer than for an apostate.

Lee Elder

There is no word in Watchtower Speak (theocratise) that carries more emotional charge than “Apostate”. To be labeled an apostate is the lowest low – worst than pond scum. In JW thinking, there is more hope for a pedophile or a murderer than for an apostate. The word is probably analogous to the use of the “N” word.

It is hard, perhaps impossible, for those not directly affected to appreciate the kind of pain inflicted by the use of these hateful expressions. When reading a thread from this site:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=24168&site=3

it dawned on me that some in ex-JW community are dealing with “A” word in a manner similar to that being used by some blacks to deal with the “N” word. We joke about “apostafests” and even take pride in the term. By doing so, we are probably trying to take the energy or power out of the word.

On the other hand, when we consider the shameful manner in which the Watchtower Corporation (the Borg) has behaved towards its members – especially the children – it feels good to be able to say, “I quit – I cannot and will not support that. I abandon the cause – I’m an apostate or at least a Watchtower apostate.”

Lee

38

What - if any - Religon are you now practicing?

by lydia in

jw
friends

i know this seems like a dumb subject.. but i often wonder if many of us still believe and feel the need to worship - and not the borg either .

so here is a poll.... what religious orginization - if any - are you affiliated ( this does not mean you had to join it)?.

or - do you feel that everything is wrong due to the borg..and will you ever consider going to an organized religon again??.

Lee Elder

I have not joined another religious organization. My wife and I have tried the "Church of the Sunday Morning Paper" as well as the "Church
of Beer". It's a difficult decision especially when you factor in re-runs of "Mysteries of the Bible." We feel very pulled.

I consider myself a liberal Christian and a Deist. I'll attend an occasional meeting at the KH, or convention to see some old friends. I have a hard time seeing myself ever joining a Church.

Lee

25

Defeating The Watchtower - What Does This Mean?

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

i actually wrote this post in response to a poster recently dealing with the 'defeating' of the wts.. i have started a new topic with the post as i would like to hear opinions of what xjw's and others view as a 'defeated' watchtower.. "i am not quite sure what we all want from the wts.

what does a person mean by 'defeating' the watchtower?.

destroying it, selling its buildings, giving the cash back to the people who bought them?

Lee Elder

"I am not quite sure what we all want from the WTS. What does a person mean by 'defeating' the Watchtower?"

I suppose this means different things to different people. Some might reject the question altogether. To imagine that we can even be responsible for forcing the WTS to change its most dangerous and barbaric policies is unrealistic.

To me, defeating the WTS is a matter of turning up the light of public scrutiny and educating Jehovah's Witnesses about how individuals and families are impacted by the WTS policies. The free flow of accurate
information is a "defeat" of the WTS, since it can only thrive in a vacuum. Additionally, when the public and the governments begin to fully understand these issues, they will pressure the WTS to change - this too is a "defeat" of sorts.

On a personal level, I have a hard time thinking in terms of "defeating" the WTS. I still have many friends and family members in the organization. I want them to be well treated by the WTS. I don't want to rock their world and turn them on their heads, theologically. I am in no more of a position to offer them "the truth" then the WTS is. I have no interest in destroying their golden calf; I just don't want it to destroy them.

Additionally, I feel my own experience is more analogous to surviving a disaster than winning a war.

Lee

39

Struggling to keep balance

by Lee Elder in

jw
friends

dont overstate matters.

the situation in oregon is a terrible tragedy.

the watchtowers policy on shunning likely contributed to the tragedy, it may have even been a primary factor but there are any number of other factors that could have contributed as well - too many to even mention!.

Lee Elder

Don’t Overstate Matters

The situation in Oregon is a terrible tragedy. The Watchtower’s policy on shunning likely contributed to the tragedy, it may have even been a primary factor but there are any number of other factors that could have contributed as well - too many to even mention!

I would hedge my bets on this situation. I know many individuals who have suffered a great deal upon leaving the WTS. None of them have gone ballistic and killed their families! What this man did is inexcusable.

The WTS has gotten a well-deserved black eye and lots of public scrutiny – those are positive things. It is very tempting, but likely a mistake, to put the entire blame on the WTS. That's how I see it, how about you?

Lee

27

Comments from the CO today

by Richie in

jw
friends

i went to the meeting today to hear the public talk given by the visiting co. the talk dealt with jehovah's secret dwelling place and how we can all be taking advantage of "fleeing to safety" as it were, especially as the days are getting wicked as he mentioned.

he brought out the dangers of listening to apostates (there were 2 people in the congregation who disassociated themselves recently, which automatically meant that they were apostates according to the co's comments).

then he further elaborated on the fact that there were about 14,000 witnesses disfellowshipped in the usa each year and in canada 1400, about the size of a circuit assembly - also he said how terribly dishonorable it would be to be df'd and be as a dead person as it were (i felt so embarrassed as i am df'd) - during the talk he brought out two points which were extremely misleading if not outright lies: he said that just after the disaster of sept 11th, thousands of people "wanted to flee to security to the watchtower building and that they felt that they needed this security".

Lee Elder

You Know:

You have grandiose ideas about the Watchtower Society and its special role. It is nothing more than a pimple on the but of humanity. There is a .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%
chance that God will punish, discipline, reward or do anything else
to the morons who run the WTS. The bad that is coming upon the organization is purely a result of natural consequences for the poor
choices they have made.

Lee

13